July 04, 2008

Why Is It So Hard for Windows Users to Understand That Linux Is Not Windows

This is just a rant (hopefully it will be regarded as pertinent and non-'laming') on why Windows users try Linux and return frustrated to Windows after several hours or days. I won't praise Linux and the way it works, I won't even compare and say 'here Linux is easier because ...', instead I have a few questions for all of you who blame Linux for not being and behaving like Windows.

The following issues address the problem to the Windows users who had their first computer with Windows pre-installed and were simple beginners not only in the computing world, but in Windows as well.

Installing software. How many of you didn't install an application or game at least once directly into directory C:\, messing the entire directory structure, not being able to find your music or pictures since all the C drive had over 100 folders? I know I did, and that was after around 1 week of playing with Windows.

Partitioning. When did you do your own partitioning on your own? I'm sure you didn't use fdisk or Partition Magic in the first three days of your Windows experience, when even the term 'booting from CD-ROM' was unknown to you.

Drivers. How much did it take until you fixed drivers for a sound card or modem on a Windows Me/Windows 98 installation after something went wrong?

Mounting ISO images. Don't tell me you knew about Daemon Tools the first day you used Windows. I know I didn't, and it took a while only to find out about CD images and that they can be mounted as a virtual drive. Note for Linux: it can be done not only using CLI as root, but with a graphical menu in your file manager of choice, and you don't have to use an entire application for it.

Video and codecs. Was it long before you settled upon a video player and a codec pack of choice, like the Classic Media Player and K-Lite Codec Pack combination? Lately I tried Vista on my mother's laptop, and surprise: you still have to install codecs!

And the list goes on...

Again, it's not my intention to disrespect the Windows users, it's only to point out, once more, that Linux is not Windows. Installing software is different than in Windows, getting drivers is different than in Windows, gaming is different than in Windows, mostly everything which works some way in Windows is done in another, different way on Linux. Which leads to the conclusion that you need to invest time and a learning curve in order to use Linux, just like you did first, when you started with Windows.

As a final advice: don't make the switch with the philosophy that in Linux you'll find a free Windows, and that's the only difference. You'll find a completely new operating system, working in a completely new different way.

Updated: Jul 08, 2008 (Created: Jul 04, 2008)

78 comments:

kozmcrae said...

You nailed it. For those poor, misguided souls expecting a free Windows when they try Linux, they'll get nothing but "broken promises". The day they boot up a LiveCD and get the bliss wallpaper, offers for full featured virus protection... they will proclaim Linux "ready for the masses", "Grandma ready", "good for Joe Sixpack", (and my personal favorite) "the year of the Linux desktop".

CH!LL said...

I recently left ubuntu after 2 years of use and went back to xp, why is that?
I learned a lot how to do advanced stuff, i learned how to do everything i wanted to do but some stuff just cant be done if you dont code your self, i went back to xp because if you don't like some software you go get another one, in ubuntu if i don't like the current offer of rss readers or multimedia players i have to shut up or code.

I left ubuntu because i value my time enough for other people to solve my problems with their software.

And the cpu scheduler sux, in windows even if the cpu is 99% i can still do all my stuff, in linux is like once that happens you have to wait and wait or terminate and start over again.

in xp i get things done faster, thats why i want ubuntu and linux to be like windows

brad said...

I always tell people on forums and chatrooms and friends, "use what you can afford, creatively acquire, figure out, or whats comfortable to you" be it linux , windows, apple, whatever..
the thing no one seems to realize is this: the real reason why "windows" users get frustrated when dealing with linux is this.. "all computers come with Windows , always have for 99% of us, so we took it as "using" the computer, not "learning how to use it" as we figured it out, for Linux, someone CHOOSES to use linux , thus it seems like more EFFORT even though you are trying to figure out, learn to do what you used to do on windows. "
hope this clears things up.. I have friends that love the fact that linux has no virus, spyware issues, but if i know them well enough and know they wont put any effort into using linux(thus calling me all the time) i wont hype it up.. but those that i feel will put in the time for a different experience, i show them compiz and the rest of the goodies, their interest drives their time and effort invested in the learning curve.

Kallahan said...

100's of folders on the C: drive? I use both Linux and windows xp, my xp partition has 7 folders on the c: drive. Windows will go out and get most codecs for you, windows media player 11 is just fine. As for installing programs directly to the C: drive, you have to explicitly tell it to do that, the way windows organizes programs actually works, and has worked since 2001, just let the programs install to default locations, that way they are all in c:\program files where you can find them.

Partitioning is obviously something I did when I installed Linux, but there's really no need to partition a Windows drive, you don't get screwed if /var accidentally runs out of space.

as for Mounting ISO images, your 100% correct. though I only had to do this just last week and I've been using windows of some form or another since '93

You're really picking nits.

Gedece said...

What I really find amazing is that the people who understand there's a difference (generally people that used live CDs or dual boot) say "I have to learn a lot to use Linux", and don't stop to think that they "had to learn a lot" from 3.11 to 95, from 98 to XP and from XP to Vista, because we were sold bacwards compatibility by Redmond, but that was not always the case, and the paradigm got redefined several times. If they can do it for windows, surely they can do it for Linux. Seems to me most people have selective memories that are not backwards compatible.

Winawer said...

I've always loved this essay to think about and answer a lot of the same questions you're asking in this post.

vigol said...

Many of People thinks that -- of course with a few exceptions (others or apples)--

1. When they talk about Computers, They talk about MS. ( Computer == MS ) !!!
2. When then encounter with a PC, naturally must encounter with a Win Desktop
3. PC == Computer == IT && Life of IT is starting and ending with MS.
4. All things are dancing over the VB, MS SQL, Cracked Apps, MS Office,... and outside there, of course there's must nothing else.
5. They Used to Play Games (Console Games ?!), Watching Video/TV (TV / DVD Players !?), All is ready ?
6. Better Performance & stabilty? Practical Server? Just a treamed Win-Sevrer?! Oh, I Love GUI! hate of Typing, Someone there must do all I want, Adm maked it trimmed.
7. I don't want to learn anymore ! nothing! , I want just to go, I like to achieve many with less, I hate study, I hate tracing,
8. If somethings goes wrong !!, So there's must be someone to solve it !.

Result, I think :
1. Nowadays people are going to an special phase of their History : They don't want to know and learn anything (Living on the first layer)
1.1. Lack of knowledge on top of the all fields (No attemping, No Growing)
1.2. I want to know about anythings, without crawling deeper
2. They work with somthing that don't what to know what exactly it is.
3. Empire of Cracked Apps
4. Personally, In all these 19 years that I study Computers, I faced with a Real FACT :
Windows Users/Adminstrators/Programmers Have a huge knowlege and experience with all things that related to Windows, But with no Deep, no Details, and all on the surface , maybe on the first layer
Exceptions :
1. Developers that are working || related to Big Vendors and Main Companies that engage with MS
2. Hackers that do start from scratch Cracking.

mehrshad moslehi - vigol - vigolyas

Shamil said...

@ch!ll
Chill is a retard. There is something called wine if linux doesn't have apps that you don't like so you can run your windows apps. And even when in xp and the cpu is at 99% usage i can tell your lying. It's not all shutup and code. Try using google sometime and you'll find lots more apps for linux that you'll probably like better. I don't think you learned how to do very advanced stuff in linux if you think it's all shutup and code.

You obviously don't do that much in linux and you also don't do that much in xp either. So you're just negligent and dumb because one platform you were used to that was free you switched away from and went back to xp which cost you 90$ or more, or your pirating it.

Try learning about linux and realize that the software that comes with ubuntu is not the only software that exists out there for linux.

All this article did was show me the similarities between win and lin. People still have codec and driver problems in linux but it more or less gets solved similarly as in windows by getting a hold of the codecs and drivers. After that you pointed out a lot of differences. But, with stuff like the kde desktop. People who were win users need to get introduced to it first. Because gnome don't hack it for win converts.

It's really funny when a win user is new to linux and they are in gnome or kde. They claim they don't know how to do anything. they don't know how to click that K button that's in the same spot as the win start button. And users don't know how to click the ubuntu icon in gnome to find apps.

Just feel great that we live in the age of the completely retarded user. Reminds me how one lady can access her email from outlook express, but when she checks her mail from the web browser instead, she says she doesn't know what to do. And i just can't believe that lady didn't know what the fuck to do when there was a place that said password and username and stuff to type in for those to login to email a different way if she doesn't have outlook express on a different computer.

@kozmcrae
it is the year of the linux desktop. Well it has been years of the linux desktop. People hate vista and go to linux and osx and xp. MS cancels xp completely leaving vista. People hate vista and go to linux and osx. People more so go to linux than osx. Cheap and awesome linux based laptops are selling like crazy!!! Linux unlike xp and vista DOESN't COST 90$ OR MORE TO OWN!!

zman said...

My kids use Linux. I give it to them for free. If they want Windows, then I tell them to buy it and install it. They always seem to pick Linux.

CH!LL said...
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CH!LL said...
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CH!LL said...
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CH!LL said...

@shamil
By code in include scripts, and yes i took the effort to learn the advanced stuff in linux, i even made a couple of python scripts but i only have so much time.
And my main complain is that the open source way to develop software falls roughly into 2 categories:
-the community driven: never ending discussions, developers in the end doing whatever the hell they want.
-a single developer: usually all open source projects start this way, and again, you have to begg for features.

And the little annoyances in gnome or kde, they dont get attention because they are little and the great developers have better things to do, but they remain:
-the gnome pannel icons moving all the time.
-you can't use global multimedia keys if you have a MENU open.
-games wont get out of fullscreen mode.
and so on an so forth

Try watching this javascript intensive page in firefox linux
http://azarask.in/projects/algorithm-ink/#e0274a5c

And then try doing something else, like using the gnome calculator. You cant.

In firefox windows, yes you can, you can even be watching flash intensive webpages at the same time.

I'm a 10 year windows user, don't tell me i don't know what im talking about, i'm a geek i do my homework.

Oh about wine, yes it works, sometimes, i tried mediamonkey the awesomest app to manage your music, it didnt even started.
I tried with the proper wine version but i had to scavange for the information.
Thats my main point, is not that i can't do the same stuff in linux, is that it takes longer, and my time is valuable.
My pc came with an xp licence.

Oh and i compiled tons of programs, i was suscribed to the gnome apps webpage and a few others. Tried all programas i could find to solve my issues, the problem is numbers, in windows i get 10 times more options.
I wont get into details, but linux apps for the desktop just fail.

natxo said...

Well, i do not know what your point was when you said try going here http://azarask.in/projects/algorithm-ink/#e0274a5c and open the calculator.

It just works. Nice site, by the way. Was it supposed to crash?

I guess there is something *very* wrong with your linux installation if you cannot do those two simple things at the same time. But please, do not spread lies, a stock fedora 9 with firefox 3 can handle that no problem whatsoever, and I am sure that any other distribution can do the same as well.

CH!LL said...

im talking about cpu usage, ok the calculator was a bad example, try watching a youtube video with that thing running.
Or try installing something and watching a flash video at the same time, painful in linux seamingless in windows.

r.Y.s.T.r.A.u.M said...

I tried that site too and I saw no slowdown whatsoever with my desktop. I'm using Ubuntu 8.04, Firefox 3.
I even installed a package while viewing. All went fine and dandy.

Have you tried the same with other PCs? If not, then you are making an assertion that generalizes but was only based on a single instance.

"i went back to xp because if you don't like some software you go get another one, in ubuntu if i don't like the current offer of rss readers or multimedia players i have to shut up or code."
Well.. don't you do so in XP? The only difference is that if you don't like a software in XP, you are more or less forced with the one you have because majority of your alternatives cost a lot.

Oh yeah, if you are whining about the software development in linux, FYI, a lot of the freeware you can get in windows is developed the same way.

@Chill: I don't think your opinions are wrong because they are opinions though I urge you to review your premises before you post them.

Andrew said...

I think the basic difference between Windows and Linux is that Windows treats you as a "user" but Linux treats you as the "owner".Ownership brings responsibilities and this means you have to get involved with the Command Line.

I am 69 this month and moved over to Ubuntu and haven't looked back. I only used my new operating system with Firefox, Evolution and OpenOffice at first whilst I got to grips with the Command Line. I then put music on it, then my digital photographs (I have 78GB of them) and now I feel able to download and install a myriad of other programs.

As for it not being popular, Citroen only this year are moving 250 servers and 20,000 desktops over to SuSE, and the French Gendarmes, after spending three years moving 70,000 users over to Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice on Windows, are now moving them all over to Lunux (Ubuntu). The Spanish Government are changing over to Ubuntu for 500,000 school computers and at an average over there of 25 per class, you can work it out. I don't have the space for more but the list goes on and on.

If you want to see which distro is more popular on the Google Search Engine go into "Google Trends" and type them all in. Make sure you type in Ubuntu as it towers above all the others.

Ampers (at blogspot.com)

Heso said...

@Chill: that webpage you have as an example works fine for me. Yes, the CPU is at 100%, but Firefox remains responsive and all others applications work well. I'm talking a fully loaded desktop here. I have Gnome running, I have music playing, file managers and text editors open, the email client, I started a YouTube video as well and yes, I can also open and use the calculator. :)

As for how you are treated by the community and developers: why should they listen to you? What we call "Linux" is a truly free community, where all people start at the bottom, as simple users. Only those that have something to offer get ahead, are heard and are given respect.

"Put up or shut up" really means just that for this community. If you don't give anything back then yes, you will be ignored. It may seem harsh but the truth is, nobody cares. It doesn't have to be coding, you can write documentation, do interface design, put together an icon theme or a skin, or contribute support for others. But it has to be SOMETHING.

You don't have the time? Great, you're still welcome to use all these thousands of completely free Linux programs. You just won't have the right to say anything. You gotta earn that.

It's not like commercial programs, where they feel obliged to be nice to you because you give them money. Period. Linux is a different world. But if I may point out, even commercial software houses won't be nice to you all the time -- when's the last time you went and told Microsoft about something that bugged you about Windows or Office, and they listened? Whereas most any Linux project has a public bug tracker where you can go open an issue.

Raoul said...

No. Linux is NOT Windows. If it were, we'd all have to pay $200 for it and then we'd get a license to all of the media codecs everyone cries about not having out of the box.


It would also be in the vendors' best interest to make a profit. Not that profits and capitalism are bad, but you will generally have to cut corners somewhere to get your product out the door before the shareholders get pissed.

People really need to look at linux objectively before they go installing it willy-nilly. It isn't Windows, nor is it Mac, and one isn't necessarily superior to any other. It's a matter of personal choice (somewhat) dependent upon one's ability and will to LEARN a NEW OS.

Just please don't cry because linux can't do exactly what you want it to. Most likely, it can, you'll just have to break a law or two (MP3, DVD codecs) or exercise a tad more effort (support/non-native apps) and actually learn something in the process.

xenoterracide said...

@ch!ll some of the problems you talk about are problems with specific apps... did you check to see if you had the same results with opera? Firefox can be a real pos on linux, they started ignoring us around 1.5 and throwing most of their support at windows.

Also Linux has hardly ever (see overloaded server) been unusable at high CPU to me... what does make it unusable (if not tweaked right) is high amounts of swap usage. did you check your swap usage? I'll bet it was high.

@anyone
I was writing more here but it got so long (and ranting) I decided to post it on my own blog you can read it here if you'd like.

natxo said...

ch!ll,

viewing that site and a listening to a videoclip of anouk in youtube at the sametime makes the cpu go to a staggering .. 34%. Well, after all this is a Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.66GHz and not the pentium II you must be using to have the problems you describe, so all is normal ;-)

CH!LL said...

Pentium IV HT 3.0 GHZ, i think is the ubuntu kernel that fails.
But you guys arent saying anything about my main point, in windows with the millions of apps i can vote with my money, in open source i can only vote with my time and effort.
I rather spend my life doing what im best at, this would translate to linux is for those who have time and are willing to spend it on a computer to get what they need to do their jobs.

CH!LL said...

I think i made the mistake linux = open source.
If the software i use goes to linux i won't see any reason not to move.

xenoterracide said...

@ch!ll

actually I can argue that. Windows doesn't have the apps I want and use, and even less the features I'm used to. But all that goes back to windows not being linux. I like my linux apps... where's tcptraceroute for windows? ever try to get bash working? how about git? where's amarok and smplayer? why can't I middle click paste? the thing is not that windows has more apps. It has more apps that you use and are used to, just like linux (and it's apps) is now more familiar to me.

xenoterracide said...

@ch!ll I'll challenge you... name 1 kind of software that windows has more offerings for than linux. Games Antivirus/malware, and audio/video editing software at a professional level should be excluded.

You have to be able to name the software options by name and they have to be ~double the number of options available on linux. I'll name the ones for linux

Anonymous said...

kozmcrae,

IMAO "the year of the Linux desktop" was 2003. :-)

BrianS

CH!LL said...

I've tried all the rss readers available all of them and one has a feature i want but not other i need. I windows i've found GreatNews wich is great and powerful.
Im graphic designer so i can't rule those profesional editing apps out.

I have my windows system tray filled with apps to do the same stuff i do in linux
True-x mouse: for the middle click
kde-sizer: to resize and move windows with alt
windows spaces: a little app from microsoft to have workspaces
yahoo widgets: to replace musicapplet
windows shadows: because thats the only thing i use from compiz.
I can go on but the point is clear, there are more windows applications period.
I dont need bash nor scripts to do stuff i have beautiful easy learning gui apps to automate my stuff.

CH!LL said...

To end this discussion: ill continue in contact with linux. I have like 15 feeds from linux blogs and the like.
I go to the ubuntu forums from time to time: search gsiliceo and you'll find i have like lots thanks in my user profile from people i've helped and tons of posts more with a few ones asking for help.
I'll keep my ubuntu partition to try the latests stuff.
But right now i can't go back, i need itunes for my ipod(dont talk about half-assed solutions in linux) And the Adobe apps, i need a functional flash plugin that doesnt hogs my cpu(and this problems dates back to warty or ubuntu 1.0)
I need msn messenger with video because my grandma doesnt use anything else.
I need my games. I need hibernation and suspend and my stable ATI driver.
The firefox bug that cause it to freeze after a few months of use because rsync problems, is not in windows. I want an usable awesomebar.

xenoterracide said...

@ch!ll see I don't have a problem with cpu that you do... the latest flash works fine for me. I run gentoo I could watch a movie in smplayer, compile openoffice, and play something on youtube, without many problems.

wasn't a requirement of wine 1.0 to have adobe photoshop working good? (I haven't tried it)and gimp, krita, karbon14, inkscape, blender (seen big buck bunny? ).

and you mention a bunch of apps that you use in windows to clone linux? that doesn't prove there are more apps in windows... only that windows needs more apps to be on par with what linux already has, and you must consider different programs provide those things. Although you may not realize because you are a ubuntu user and ubuntu set's things up for you. I'm a gentoo user... an out of the box install doesn't have X let alone music players.

complaining that the apps aren't the same confirms the authors point. Linux isn't windows. You can't expect the exact same apps on all, the binaries aren't compatible, windows doesn't have posix so a lot of linux stuff doesn't run, and windows is closed so we can't make a lot of windows stuff work (easily).

from the sounds of your problems maybe you should try a distro other than ubuntu? I like to put people on opensuse (kde version). but I don't think you'll be happy on linux since you aren't happy with apps that serve the same purpose, you have to use the exact apps.

(note: due to kde4's premature release on a lot of distro's I'd wait 'till opensuse 11.1 to make a call on it or install kde-3.5 on 11.0 instead of kde 4.)

xenoterracide said...

@ch!ll

couple of last things... I don't mind if you use linux or not, just don't insult on the argument that linux doesn't have enough apps. Your argument is actually linux doesn't have the apps I want to use. Just like windows doesn't have the apps I want.

I don't think anyone can really say that any software is problem free... on any os. If they do they haven't used it long enough, or don't know how to spot a problem.

also I'm glad you help out on ubuntu forums. I've helped out a few ubuntu users on IRC and I've helped quite a few people out on gentoo forums. I did burn out on that after a while though.

Anonymous said...

to xenoterracide:
There is some software that is better on Windows. On my Windows laptop, one of the apps I use constantly is Streets & Trips with a USB GPS. On Linux, the roadmap software is primitive compared to Streets. Neither Streets & Trips nor the Delorme alternative work on Linux in Wine without the windows system folder.

On Windows, I can use a CD-rom to run Tax software like Turbotax or Taxcut. On Linux, those don't work and I would be forced to trust my information to the web-based version of Turbotax or Taxcut.

On Windows, if I want to make a greeting card it is easy with Print Shop or MS Publisher. On Linux it is much more difficult.

CH!LL said...

I'm willing to use different programs when i came back i searched the net for windows xp programs and i used them because they were good.
I was talking about features in programs and quality of them.
In my experience the open source desktop is of inferiour quality for most of the tasks. And i say desktop because i mean gui, the command line owns windows and the linux server does too.

CH!LL said...

I don't think i have to prove there are more apps for windows than for linux, google any category of software(for the desktop) with the word windows and then linux.

CH!LL said...

http://www.google.es/trends?q=rss+reader+windows%2C+rss+reader+linux

http://www.google.es/trends?q=text+editor+windows%2C+text+editor+linux&ctab=366955928&geo=all&date=all

http://www.google.es/trends?q=file+explorer+windows%2C+file+explorer+linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

http://www.google.es/trends?q=instant+messenger+windows%2C+instant+messenger+linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

http://www.google.es/trends?q=media+player+windows%2C+media+player+linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Any more doubts?

xenoterracide said...

@anonymous

good points.

I forgot about tax software because... well I shouldn't be doing my own taxes. did that once, didn't work out so well. So now I just pay someone to do it. On the other hand some versions of turbotax are reported to work in codeweavers crossover office.

Streets and Trips is a really great piece of software if you require offline mapping, I used to use it. I believe google has added some of it's features recently if you can use online maps.

I stopped liking publisher after office 2000, I think they screwed up the UI... back then I didn't know what UI or Linux was. It wouldn't seem to me that it would be to hard to build greeting cards with open office, true they don't have a dedicated publisher app, but you should be able to fake it well enough. Also Publisher is said to work in Crossover Office.

I'll give you 2 out of 3. because crossover does cost money and because those turbotax seems iffy on whether it works or not.

Robert O'Connor said...

+1

You hit it right on the money! Linux != Windows; never will, nor should it for that matter.

syncdram said...

Yes Linux is not windows your trapped if you don't compile, doggy rig and hack your way for a basic user friendly software, hardware support and drivers. By any new piece of external hardware such as a printer web cam and I'm sorry to say windows users your @$%& out of luck. Who wants to crawl through eBay to find old outdated hardware for the most (CURRENT) version of any Linux distro in the year 2008? Come on and you want to push Linux as the next desktop? All versions of Linux are the same and your confined to that distro's little box of what they call freedom, Free from the Microsoft tax.In todays world that amounts to NOTHING! Now let your pants down some get rid of those belts and pocket protectors and DUE SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RATHER THAN COMPLAIN!

xenoterracide said...

@ch!ll yes chill because the number of people who have to search for a program is an indicator of the number of programs available. Or maybe no one searches for a reader on linux because they come pre-installed with most distro's.

Firefox, Akregator, and Snow come to mind... not to mention the innumerable tickers, desktoplets, and web ones that work fine.

Sam said...

@chill

nice list, although a bit biased since M$ is far more predominant. Try these too:

http://www.google.es/trends?q=virus+windows%2C+virus+linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

http://www.google.es/trends?q=spyware+windows%2C+spyware+linux&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

http://www.google.es/trends?q=defragment+windows%2C+defragment+linux&ctab=204499584&geo=all&date=all

http://www.google.es/trends?q=windows+sucks%2C+linux+sucks&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

http://www.google.es/trends?q=windows+slow%2C+linux+slow&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Anonymous said...

Its call jumping before you are ready across to Linux. If you have already untied yourself from single platform applications and codec's its not that painful.

cpu is 99% That issue disappears in newer kernels also it pays to set bias's correctly so your user still gets processor access when the system is packed. XP and Vista Desktops have this bias default. Server verisons of Windows DON'T and behave exactly the same as Linux.

CH!LL said...

We were talking about number of programs, i won that one, there are far more programs for windows than linux, thinking otherwise is ridiculous. And yes between those programs malware is included.

Security is another issue, yeah linux win in that one, but is not a problem i have.
I don't think anybody wants linux to be like windows in that regard so you are off the point.

Anonymous said...

... i don't understand.. i never thought linux was windows..
idk why someone would.. most people who no nothing about computers don't even know what linux is.. and those who do know that linux, mac, windows are different.. (although mac and linux are pretty close.)

Anonymous said...

There is an incredible amount of bad spelling and grammar on this page...

I don't have a Windows install, and I avoid using Windows in the workplace or at school as much as possible (I really only have to use it when I am fixing a problem on it).


I am totally comfortable in Linux, I can do whatever I want - and it wasn't really hard to learn at all. I am even playing EVE Online in WINE perfectly right now, and I have many Firefox pages and aMSN open and that comes to a grand total of 33% CPU.

Sam said...

"We were talking about number of programs, i won that one"

-- snip --

"Security is another issue,"

-- snip --

"I don't think anybody wants linux to be like windows in that regard so you are off the point."

To clarify my point: Just because there are more programs for Windows, it doesn't mean that all of them are *USEFUL*. Just how many of those programs are simply "clones" of one another, and how many more of them are actual improvements of some sort to actually stand out from the crowd? That's why I used viruses and spyware - Windows doesn't just run a lot more programs than GNU/Linux; it just runs a lot more CRAP. ;)

Sure, Adobe have deserved their position when it comes to media production, but I have come across far too many _useless_ programs on the Microsoft platform.

As for the media player scene, GNU/Linux has far less players, yes, but atleast they are freakin' USEFUL. With VLC I can stream a DVD to every computer/laptop in this house, (a feature that Windows users can enjoy since free software allows it to be ported easily to other OSes).

Also, many media players (including Winamp) can only play a certain amount of formats from first install, with more codecs needed for other formats. With GNU/Linux, I don't have this problem. VLC, gXine and MPlayer can play a lot more formats than 99% of the Windows- programs, while VLC itself plays just about any format I throw at it. (Including CSS DVDs)

Windows Media Player can't even handle FLVs. You know, the videos from www.youtube.com you can rip using www.keepvid.com. ? How crap.

Chris Lees said...

@Andrew:

Other way around. Windows treats you (or the first user) as the owner, which makes it so effortless for people to run as root and get spyware. Linux treats you as a user unless you ask it to temporarily treat you as the owner.

I know what you mean though :-)

Anonymous said...

I just want to say, after years of helping scientists use linux and transition from Windows or Macs, it is obvious to me that they use linux because they HAVE to. It's sort of the same with me, how I have to use WINDOWS because I HAVE to.
For those of you reading these posts and are considering switching, think of this: learning how to use a computer has its own stages. How much time will you want to spend learning how to use it properly. If you are used to using a bicyle and are proficient with it, what will you do when you need to fly accross an ocean and only have a primed and fueled jet plane? Will you find a pilot first, or will you learn how to fly the thing? Don't criticize something because you are not used to it or you couldn't figure out how to use it properly.
Peace.

James said...

My mum (a Grandma) has Kubuntu. She is a great example of a person who uses computers a small amount and hence has not build a massive expectation that doing X, Y and Z is done by method P, D and F. Her limited experience with computers means she just gets on and uses it without preconceptions and as a result she gets on fine. Which suggests to me that for most low demand users the only real grumble they have is being too lazy to have to learn something that is sometimes slightly different.

Anonymous said...

I've used the last two years of Turbo Tax software on Wine without problem. Whoever says you can't use tax software in Wine is wrong.

The Windows --> Linux switch was hard for me. I ended up switching because when it comes to penetration testing Windows just doesn't compare to Linux. I started out just using it for pen testing but I liked it so much I switched all machines but this one (my gaming rig) to one flavor of Linux or another.

FishB8 said...

I first started using Linux in 2001. I'm still using it.

At first I thought it was the greatest thing ever. It didn't crash and I could modify things any way I wanted. I recommended it to everybody I knew.

Nowdays, I don't recommend Linux because I know I'll hear them whining about how it doesn't work like Windows. I just play dumb. And when people ask if I know how to fix their busted Windows system, I still play dumb.

What I learned is that it has little to do with the OS. People who are too stupid or lazy to fix their own problems are going to bug the hell out of me irregardless of which OS they are using.

Playing dumb has it's advantages.

Anonymous said...

Well, I use ubuntu linux on my laptop which came with Vista preinstalled. I got rid of Vista and have never looked back as far as my work is concerned. BUT I sourely miss some windows dominant applications - Microsoft Money - excellent money management softwares - there are dozens of Open Source alternatives - but they dont quite come close to MS Money - especially MS Money's ability to directly connect to your bank account/credit card account and download all the activities automatically. Mind well that MS Money also works internationally - it allows me to see my stock portfolio and gains and losses in other countries - you cant beat that.
Games - there are hundreds of games for linux - but I really like first person shooter games (quake), or car racing (NFS), biking (moto), Strategy (Age of Empires). There are no good alternatives to the later three. The first person shooter category has open arena and nexuiz on linux side. But these appear more of an exception than norm. Open Office is good and does my job well...but still has a long way to go before it reaches MS office ability, can read all my XLSs, can display all the ppts, and read all the word docs well. I still struggle to see some movie formats on linux. Inspite of this i am not claiming that windows is good. I love linux and I will use it come what may. But I refuse to get blinded by some lame arguments in favor of either of the operating systems. And let me also ask this to those who are saying there are thousands of free application available for linux - how many of these are really worth using consistently every single day? How many of them even come close to commercial softwares and how many of them are feature rich? I love linux and would love to see the day when it becomes the platform of choice for everything. But until then we as linux community will have to live with the fact that windows has richer applications, has wider acceptance in terms of end users and application providers. We have a long way to go!!!

Anonymous said...

I swithced my 87 year old mother's computer from XP to Kubuntu when it got infected. She does a couple of "tile" type games, a little solitare and some surfing.

I put the new Linux apps for the games and Firefox on the desktop like they were in XP, and she never knew the difference! It took her literaly no time at all to adapt.

For a "user" there is less of a difference between Windows and KDE linux then there is between a Ford and a Nissan.

I think my biggest hurdle was the fakt that new programs came with a 'click' instead of in a box.

blackbelt_jones said...

You don't need the command line to run linux anymore, but for most people, without the command line, Linux is always going to be perceived as Windows, without the commercial software choices. If you don't use the command line and you're using Linux, it's because of money, or politics, or something other than your desktop experience.

With just a little bit of the command line, Linux is whole nother animal. It can help you automate processes, cut through a lot of tedious crap, and program your desktop to do just about anything with a single click or a single modified keystroke.

Linux has the better command line, more command line applications, and a more command line friendly culture, but I think have a lot of misconceptions bout the Command line, and these days Linux distros try to keep the command line out of sight in the default desktop, as if it were a dirty little secret.

To me, the command line seems to be the line that separates Linux fanatic from unimpressed former linux user It may be a coincidence, or the correlation may work the other way... but in my experience, people who become comfortable with the command line stick around, and those who don't lose interest.

I can remember finally forcing myself to try using the cli to manage files. It was about two years in. That was when Linux really began to make sense to me. Before that, I had been operating on pure Microsoft-hate.

Steistas said...

Finally I found time to install ubuntu onto my pc (at the moment it's alongside xp, but not for very long I think). I was planning to do it for a while (about 2 years :D)and that's what I think:
Installation of Ubuntu was much simplier than windows, no extra drivers to download/install, all was done automatically, connected the network cable to my router and I've got internet : Wohooo!!!
I'm really impressed with Ubuntu. Any software needed, just click on add/remove and tick the software needed and it all will be installed automatically, put into the needed section under the 'start menu' - just great. Ok - gnome isn;t the same as windows, but - I didn't came to linux for a clone, yes it's different, but you shouldn't have any problems finding your way around (just need to think logically a little bit :).
Also, I don't understand why people complain - if you don't know how to do something- go to the forums - Ubuntu has a huuuuge and very helpful community.

Anyway - I'm happy :D

Anonymous said...

Re: CH!LL comments, I went to that site http://azarask.in/projects/algorithm-ink/#e0274a5c with 6 other tabs open, one playing a youtube video, I was also playing music with Amarok, kopete messenger open, and just for fun I was running f-prot virus scanner.

I'm running Linux on a pentium III 512 ram. I haven't had any problems or slowdowns. Since I switch this computer to Linux, it has become faster than when it had XP.

So not sure why you had such a problem. And why is it, that nearly every super-computer runs Linux? Surely they wouldn't use it if it was slow.

Anyway, I switched to Linux last year and it meets all my needs. Yes I had to learn some new ways of doing things, it wasn't difficult. I wasn't expecting a clone of Windows.

Sure there are more commercial software choices for Windows, but I've been able to find equivalent Linux software.

I'm a happy convert! I don't see any reason in the foreseeable future,to go back to Microsoft products and there stupid licensing agreements.

lohengrin said...

I have read through the comments and are struck by the fact that nobody addresses the main issue that ch!ll raises. And that is the fact that anything is possible in Linux, but it takes to much time to get there. Of course anything that is possible to do in Windows is in theory possible on Linux and vice versa, they run the same hardware.

That is why a discussion on particulars is pointless. The Windows fan says: "This does not work." and the Linux fan says "Yes it does, you just do this." A solution can almost always be found to any specific issue. What the Linux fan often fails to realize (and what is the main point of the original blog post) is that behind this solutions lies effort. Since the market shares are what they are almost 100% of hardware manufacturers target Windows. Some target Linux/Mac OS as well, but ALL target Windows. So you just plug in your stuff and you are ready. You do not see "How to get your iPod working" posts on a Windows mailing list, simply because there is no need.

My current computer uses three 3 monitors of which one has its own GPU, remote controller for media, TV-card with decoder card, 3g modem, countless portable devices like keyboard, mouse, N95 phone, iPod and so on. I am certain I could get it working under Linux but I challenge anyone except mighty Linus himself to do it in under a day. And by working I do not mean 98% working (like applications on Wine), I mean working. In Windows it just works, out of the box, <1h setup.

Furthermore I think most Linux defenders (of which I count myself) focus too much on the cost of Windows. For anyone working with computers the licence fee for Windows and the apps used are nothing compared to billable hours. You chose the tool that is best for the job. I use Linux and Open Source because it is open and I cannot get locked in, not because it saves me $200 on a Windows license. During the day in the challenge above I could have worked on a client project and earned $1000 income instead.

I am a fulltime developer so naturally I do all my work on Linux since that is what is used on the production servers. I contribute by writing patches and plugins in the projects I use and are active on the forums. I love the driving force behinf FOSS. So please do not conceive me as a MS-boy (I developed web pages for IE5 so that alone makes me want to scream when I think about MS), I am just realistic. I really love KDE but I simply do not have time to get the hardware working. Instead I do all development on remote machines and keep my Vista locally so that all hardware works properly.

Hanif said...

I've the same problem when trying to play some vido files in windows Vista,,, seems windows media player not that good... Hemmm...

Robocoastie said...

ch!ll said: "And the cpu scheduler sux, in windows even if the cpu is 99% i can still do all my stuff, in linux is like once that happens you have to wait and wait or terminate and start over again."

Me:
That's not true at all ch!ll. All you have to do is change the nice level of your running apps and walla! you now have free cpu cycles. Windows on the other hand chooses the nice levels automatically which may not be a good thing at all.

Linux gives the power of the computer back to you. However, there are some very legitimate gripes about the OS general but they all tend to boil to this: hardware vendor support. Printing for example has come a very long way but it's still too fussy. Even printers reported to print as "excellent" at linuxprinting.org have too many hiccups that it can be a show stopper for some people.

For me, Linux has enough tools I NEED to have to have such as astronomy tools. But Windows has many tools I NEED as well, particularly printer drivers, I'm tired of getting hardware only to find out that it doesn't work despite the findings of many people and so called "compatability" lists.I've even found that ripping and encoding dvd movies in Virtualbox takes the same amount of time as it does running the os stand-alone.

So for me, running both OS's at the same time has been the solution to my needs. YMMV.

Rob

So my solution has been a Quad proc. running Vista host with Ubuntu running in Virtual box.

Anonymous said...

xenoterracide says:

"name 1 kind of software that windows has more offerings for than linux."

1. Personal Information Managers

Though it's not maintained anymore based on some of the reviews I've read or at least poor user feedback, GemX's do-organizer was to many the total package PIM or potential total package PIM that no other PIM has ever come close to.

Evernote Desktop version is another thing that just has no Linux alternative

OneNote is another.

YeahWrite can work on Wine but I'm excluding Wine Apps since Game apps which theoretically can be replaced by other games on Linux is excluded so emulators are out

2. Easier installer (technically this tag covers all software related to it)

Let's face it, for the beginning casual user especially those with no knowledge a basic doubleclick is still more user friendly to maintain and learn than installing from source.

Every casual Linux user who never had few troubles with Linux have one thing in common.

They either are satisfied with pre-installed applications or they have someone install for them.

Of course this is off set by Windows being less secure hence resulting in Norton ignorance which slows down their PC if the viruses have not caught on so it's not a plus for Windows but certainly something Linux is lacking and until more people take notice of mintinstall and more Linux distributions have it in them by default (including expanding it from single apps to packages to choices/auto-installation when installing the OS), Linux repositories will always be one step behind Linux as there's always going to be a chase for search keywords and the casual user will have to run off to learn how to install from source or be extremely lucky that their non-mainstream pet apps are already in the repositories. I only have one example but I feel this is a major one. When I last checked Synaptic which was a few months ago, a decent semi-popular program like ThinkingRock wasn't in it.

http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_elyssa.php

Easier installation = more choices or illusion of it because of less time needed to learn how to do a basic thing

3. Browsers

While the accusation of windows programs being more because they are just upgrades or clones of similar programs is more true than false on windows, the case is certainly different for browsers.

With one big key difference being Konqueror (because it's also a file manager), you're not getting your slice of IE + safer browser with little tweaks like Maxthon or lite Gecko browser like K-meleon unless you opt for Windows.

If that wasn't bad enough, both Epiphany and Galeon look even more like clones of Seamonkey/Firefox and unlike media players, in today's world it's the little things that separate a browser.

Not to mention as someone has pointed out, Flash while not having experienced what ch!ll posted is still better on windows and that might as well be a "no browser" for most users. Hell, for many users no IE = no browser. (*cough* developers who don't test on multiple browsers *cough* *cough*)

4. Distraction Free Writers

In Windows, you have Q10 and DarkRoom. In Linux...you have to tweak a text editor.

5. Novel Writing Software

I'm not sure I know of any in Linux especially stable ones but feel free to post one.

6. Touch Typing Drills Software

Only one I found is TuxTyping and while pretty, it's pretty bare bones and acts more like a game which can be true for many of these softwares but when you're the only one, it really becomes jarring if you're set up more like a game than an instructional guide.

7. PocketPc integration

It could be that I just didn't search enough but I don't think there's a user friendly ActiveSync clone out there yet.

Besides the Novel Writing software, I don't think any of these can fall under professional either and there are a number of casual users who either do use them or can use them.

This isn't to say that these are crucial though. It might be possible to tweak Linux by combining certain programs to achieve such an effect but it's not going to be as convenient as getting a list of ptograms from X site/blog like what the author has done for other types of software in his other articles on this site. (Though I'm secretly challenging this blog to do just that)

uray said...

"....Which leads to the conclusion that you need to invest time and a learning curve in order to use Linux, just like you did first, when you started with Windows..."

so why most of the newbies and computers idiots using windows and stick to it?... because Linux is free only if your time is worthless...

why would they need to read a couple man pages, surf linux distros support forum, ask everyone just to make some application installed properly, while in windows you just download the installer, click and run in, and osx is even better you just drag drop it... no package manager, no need for internet connection for update, no stupid config and compilation things...

Anonymous said...

""so why most of the newbies and computers idiots using windows and stick to it?... because Linux is free only if your time is worthless...""

They're newbies. Anything considered "tweaking" can be equivalent to programming for them because they've never been exposed to doing stuff with the pc.

Windows is as worthless to them with the exception that they don't know what an OS is so to them it becomes a necessary evil to which they have to be indoctrinated.

""why would they need to read a couple man pages, surf linux distros support forum, ask everyone just to make some application installed properly""

The same holds true for many Windows applications especially non-shareware ones.

""while in windows you just download the installer, click and run in""

and get infected with a virus as soon as you log in to the internet and since they're newbies, they'll think there's a problem with windows and ask someone to fix it for them until they know better which because more people use windows, more people know how to do basic stuff in windows which would lead to the illusion that it's still easier to fix windows than install Linux.

"and osx is even better you just drag drop it..."

and pay for most quality applications on it. It's the equivalent of a glorified waste of cash to get something that hides the complexities of an operating system with no extra bonus to your life. (No OSX eye candy is as subjective as Compiz)

As you have clearly pointed out, installers are convenient enough for most newbies. Maybe even more convenient than drag and drop since it doesn't cripple them if that's the only OS they've ever been introduced to.

""no package manager""

Which is a minus as most users who got frustrated at finding out they can't remove IE without ruining their systems can tell you. Not to mention something which results in loads of crap coming pre-bundled with many XP systems

""no need for internet connection for update""

No idea how you can call this better.

"no stupid config and compilation things"

It's just hidden...until something breaks and then you're off to a forum anyway.

Anonymous said...

Edit: (No, OSX eye candy is as subjective as Compiz)

Anonymous said...

Im with Chill,

Also, WINE would not run any of my Windows Apps (but I could wait a year to see if anyone got them to work for me), Fonts on Webpages in Linux are missing (whats with the global Times new roman??), It was not exactly fast (I tried 20 different distros including all the main players), the icons look like crap (as bad as the Vista ones! Yes XP Rules), and the list of those cheesy software apps to download (as chill said, there are tons more Windows Apps free or otherwise and most are 100 times more professional that the ones people are slapping together for Linux).

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Linux is doesn't come close to Windows - its like using a leaf to wipe your behind - there is a reason it is free!

Linux? I Might as well use DOS! HA.

Haos said...

Just left Debian after two years and got back to XP. Why?

- Opera works fine with Flash, no more lockups, flash issues, X-server crashes every 10-15 minutes

- WPA/WPA2 works ootb. I couldn`t manage to make it work for my Broadcom under 2.6.22 kernel...

- No more dependency hell, like the need to dump whole X-server and depending packages, when switching from GCC 4.1.1 to 4.1.2

- Stuff just works... when i need a program, i just download and install it. On Linux, many apps ment hours of googling to make it install properly;

- my SIS 760GX has serious issues with movie playback when using videoram shared with RAM. Just for that i decided for upgrading RAM to 2gb... No DRI ofc and never will be... Under XP i can use it for Dx9 games... ugly and low framerate, but it works!

- No need to kill the mixer for music/video sound to work... Try it with kmixer locking up audio device just for itself...

- No hibernation for my lappy

- My BOINC SETI was plagued with corrupted results under Linux... Works fine on XP

I could just go on and on...

Anonymous said...

"How much did it take until you fixed drivers for a sound card or modem on a Windows Me/Windows 98 installation after something went wrong?"

Windows Me? Windows 98? You've got to be kidding me.

Anonymous said...

Here's the thing and I think a lot of Linux adovcates miss this when pushing the OS.
Linux does some thing really exceptionally well. It shines on the server side, and that's not a bad thing.

On the personal computer side, I can honestly say it's not so good. My latest shot at Linux included Unbutu and Mandrake. Both of them failed the World of warcraft test.

I installed wine and went through the setup, it opened ok. However after the login I was unable to interact with anything in the game.
I chalked it up to new install of an OS I wasn't completely familiar with so went through the wilds of the internet and found a lot of very helpful advice, after much recompiling and more research, I finally discovered the solution to my problem was to purchase a commercial fork of wine because that was the only environment that had the support I needed.
I have no problem paying a monthly fee to the company that makes the game to play on their servers. I do have a problem with renting my OS so I can play games.

So I reformatted and threw windows back on. I agree that Linux is not windows, it's closer to DOS with windows 3.1 running on top of it, but I like most computer users have moved on from there and at least in my case are not willing to take the step backward without good reason.

Anonymous said...

There's a reason people pick Linux when they need a cheap, fast server.

Anonymous said...

I have absolutely no need to use Linux. I can get most windows versions and software for free because of their university programs, and configuring it is easy.

About partitioning, my first time with fdisk I had little over a year of using windows, and it went flawlessy. Was 5yo at the time. Partioning is very easy anywhere.

Drivers and windows codecs work a lot like linux. There are many great codec packs, and most decent Media Players install them for you anyway...

BTW, I use linux a lot at work, and , for equal stability, I need to spend twice as much time, at least, to get the same things working...

emilsun said...

Linux applications has its learning curve, its challenges, and its deficiencies for the windows user. Chill has a point. He is free to feel that way. After all isn't freedom often hard-earned and slavery, oppression, or ignorance blissful?

The difference between Linux and Windows is like Freedom and Slavery. Freedom is often always hard-earned so s moving away from Microsoft's hegemony. Paying your way through is generally the chosen path just like people in corrupt countries like mine would rather maintain the status quo than exercise their rights.
Moving away from politics, let me recall how difficult and buggy Microsoft Outlook was about 5 years ago. I remember spending weeks just making sync work and when it did the vigilance I had to exercise to keep it working. I recall also how Microsoft took over ManagePro and required a 1GB ram on its upgrade some 5 years ago making the program overly bloated and virtually useless for most of us. I remember how McAffee screws up existing programs in their upgrades. I remember paying for these programs.
Perhaps chill has short memory or like the multitudes would rather maintain the status quo.

One fact I always remember is that Linux is free so that if it serves 90% my needs I am extremely grateful and most importantly happy.
Recently, I spent months in futility making recording equipment work because XP SP2 screwed up the firewire protocol.
Recently, too, I salvaged a laptop whose optical drive malfunctioned by installing Kubuntu from a USB. Try that with windows.
Everyone in my family including my 12 year old uses Kubuntu and Ubuntu. I still maintain an XP just for Cakewalk Sonar and my pro audio hobby. But I am confident that will not last longer.
The point is people have to be objective about Linux and appreciate the fact that it is free and gives us a growing list of choice and competence Windows has long deprived many of us.

Anonymous said...

Spanner in the Works!

I read with interest what you're all saying. I see why so many governments and individuals alike are moving over to Linux and in the 100's of thousands - It's free!

In these cash strapped times it doesn't make sense to spend millions of pounds on Micro$haft Winblows.

However...
Because of the vast number of Winblows users out there, there is an equally huge number of software applications available.

Me? I'm in it for the money. That's all, it goes no deeper than that - I'm as shallow as a teaspoon.

I build and repair computer systems. The money is in Windows and that's that.

I have build and installed only 4 Linux systems over the years compaired with thousands of Windows systems.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to be more involved with Linux if the money were there, but it's not.

Linux is for geeks who solve their own problems using on-line forums. Windows is for cretins who can't tell a computer from their car stereo.

Linux could be the greatest invention this planet has ever known, but do I care?

No.

Chili said...

i use windows for playing latest hot games like Warcraft 3, Command & Conquer 3, Red Alert 3, etc...

i use windows for playing games with shockwave embedded website...

i use windows for editing & creating website with Dreamweaver 8...

windows now are more advance... also got more software for tighten its security. i like to use linux (ubuntu) which is the top rate distro but i miss directory opus, dreamweaver, windows directx games, etc...

i love linux but i love windows more...

Anonymous said...

Apples and oranges... It's teh philosophy of being able to alter, share, be involved in the build of a distro or app. If windows fits your needs, pay the money and save the time. If you want to break out of the normal confines of license agreements etc for whatever reason, you should ethically and morally move to open source software.

I use(d)
Vista
XP
Open Suse 10.3 gnome, 11.0 KDE
Fedora
Mandrake
OS 8, 9, X

handsforeyes said...

Windows is not linux. There are no restrictions in linux other than knowledge (or the will to attain that knowledge) and its application. In windows there are many limitations that are intrinsic parts of windows code, unchangeable - regardless of how much you know about it!
Example, try running wlan (wifi) cards, sticks, whatever, in monitor mode on windows. You can`t, simple. In linux you can, just type [sudo iwconfig wlan0 mode monitor] - for me anyway, specifics may change depending on linux flavour or interface program/script used.
Why might one need to do that? If you have made a large £ investment in some M$ server software, you can find out how crap and insecure it really is, and how you could have the same amount of insecureness for free with linux, its just there are less viruses/trojans/etc for linux systems than M$ or mac and most opportunist hackers/scammers rely on people having M$. Plus you can make your system actually neer airtight on linux just investing time and effort and gaining an intrinsic knowledge of how it works and how to tweak (you can do the same for M$ but, even though you may get to know it intrinsicly, there next to nothing you can do to alter it).

Silverado said...

Different objectives - different approach - different OS.

I use both *nix and Windows for various tasks I have to accomplish.

Grigori said...

Windows != Linux
that's clear, either OS has it's advantage.
I think the main problem to understand the differences of OSes is that Windows is more friendly for end-user that don't know much (and don't want to learn);
while Linux is for geeks (in a good way) for the need of commands, hacking, configurations... things that most users don't want to deal with.
I use both Red Hat and Windows Servers at work, no problem with either. The problem I have is with users that don't have any knowledge in computer and need to do simple functions. With Windows there's not much maintenance to install and config, while in Linux it's some sort of pain.
In Windows I need to keep up with updates, anti virus, security... Not in Linux.
So, I thing it's hard for people to think. Think that Linux is NOT windows.
When people talk about Linux, they think it's a free copy of Windows, with similar softwares.
I do some webdesign/development, using Dreamweaver. There is no similar in Linux.
OpenOffice is NOT the same thing than MSOffice, but it does the job.
Both systems have Firefox and rss readers, not an issue.

What I do get from Linux users is that they are like a close community that don't accept complains!
Linux users think they are the only good ones, and that MS users are dumb for using other OS than Linux. It's an option, not being wrong!
About "Shut up and code", people shouldn't be impolite no matter what! that's another problem in Linux, not all users are geek or computer major.

Anonymous said...

if u tried linux n go back to windows cuz u feel its slow or cannot multitask, it could be that your computer sucks or old.. linux comes in a variety of distro that you really have to try each and you WILL encounter one which really CLICKS with your pc hardware, working like a mother** fast like the wind. for me, it was jumping distro til i found archlinux. package manager pacman is one click install, huge repository, includes 'yaourt' which builds your program from repo also instead of make install, n theres a 'powerpill' program which slice n multi download that 10mb package in a minute.. extensive wiki covers every in and outs of the operating system and i just love it. i was a win user since a kid, remember pascal?, just got win free 2 years ago bye2 windows. everything i can do in win, i can do better in linux as of now with the learning and exploring of course. n now im into compressing my linux system into thumbdrive plug into any pc and presto, my own operating system on the go in any pc/laptop without leaving a trace on it. works like a charm, its called 'larch' damg linux is funnnnn... hehe

Anonymous said...

I installed Ubuntu Linux 10.10 on a customer's PC side by side with Windows 7. She was nervous about the injection of OpenSource code on her new HP monster machine. But with a bit of coaxing along with a demonstration of how it works on my own PC, the door was opened.

The HP required a Vista-to-Win7 upgrade that seemed endless. Returning the next day to find the job done, a partitioning prepared the drive to receive GNU/Linux.

The Ubuntu setup time astonished my client in light of the Win7 upgrade. I opened the printer panel and didn't see her equally new HP printer. She suggested I simply turn it on. The icon appeared. Printing and scanning was flawless from the start.

hiccup
My client tried upgrading Ubuntu online. All worked well, but she found she was unable to connect to the net. I re-installed 10.10 and suggested she wait on 11.04 until I was done testing the new interface.

a year later
I asked her which she spent more time in: Win7 that she was so desperate to keep ... or Ubuntu 10.10. She answered immediately: "Oh, 99% of my time is in Linux. I only use Win7 for a few things... and most of that is watching it update. *sigh*"

Note: 99% of her time is in Linux after her brother-in-law suggested Linux was for geeks, its interface was difficult to understand and help was not easy to get.

gnu/linux isn't windows
I agree. I am very thankful it isn't. I still run XP for some tasks. But since 2005 my main system has been and will continue to be Linux.

Aleena said...

I think i made the mistake linux = open source.
If the software i use goes to linux i won't see any reason not to move.

1099 Software

Sidney Kenson said...

Oh thank God, that Linux != Windows! I have several machines for several purposes, two of them running on Windows (Basically for DJing - I haven't found any solutions which work fine for me, so I stay at my WinXP with a VirtualDJ), a nice network server, hosting all my media files and some PXE-related stuff, a Raspberry Pi as a media center connected to my TV in the living room, some diskless computers - why should I else handle the PXE-stuff on my server? All in all a heterogenic network, samba- and nfs-shares in peaceful coexistance, and everything is just fine.

I have some question, as someone mentioned package managers in quite a stressed tone: Where is the problem? I mean I like it to have a tool like aptitude granting me full access to the repository, sorted by purpose, allowing me to select the software to install, and then telling me that I additionally have to install some other packages, deinstall some others and to update a third group, better than to google for some software, suitable on my problem, hoping that it's no malware, and when trying to install, it tells me "You need software B to install this software!"
Yes, the manual way to install some software isn't as nice as on Windows, but what would it look like if the software came in source code and not as a binary for Windows too? You had to configure it right the same way, you also had to compile it, and in a final step install the freshly generated binary to the according place! So at best will, I don't see any problems with that.